Fortress Improvements


#1

I think some changes are needed to make people want to get involved in the Fortress. This is not a matter of not being able to clear the Fortress, this is about making people want to participate. (Bolded for clarity) With the introduction of epics, people are a lot more desperate for shards, however others are still not keen to make all of their attacks and so only hit once. Consequently, we don’t clear it as readily as we should, and we’re not even on the highest difficulty. I have a couple of suggestions on how this could be achieved:

  1. As well as the daily for making 1 hit, how about also adding one for 5 hits which offers 250xp and influence, as well as 100 more Fortress tokens. This would then encourage people to make more than one attack. This daily would also make cap raises more attainable. Especially if you keep increasing the xp requirement. Could maybe make it level unlockable if you’re concerned about new players levelling up too quickly, i.e. have to be level 40 for it or similar.

  2. Add an auto fight option. This would speed up the combat process and would quickly decide the winner of the fight without having the watch the combat scene. Basically like raid for Fortress.

  3. Can you keep the red dot on the Fortress until the player has used all of their heroes. No one likes a red dot, and seeing it there will hopefully persuade them to use all of their heroes up. Or maybe implement a setting which can be changed by leadership to decide how many heroes should be used before the red dot disappears, i.e. 50% used before the red dot disappears

  4. Changing the ways heroes are hired in the Fortress. Either completely remove the timer, but limit the player to how many hires they can make, or that they can only hire each hero once. Or reduce the length of the timer. People regularly go to the Fortress and there is nothing to hire. With the max hiring options being 4 heroes each, but mostly only 2, it presents limited options considering that people make over 10 attacks if they use all of their heroes.
    Alternatively you could add an option for leadership to set a limit on how many hires a player can make, so that they aren’t all gone when someone is using 1 hero and one hire for each hero they have.

Sticking with fortress, but not related to time constraints. Another issue is the line clean-ups. There are constant arguments over people feeding off of partial lines after quickly stealing it from a player who has just lost to it but left two heroes. This is of concern to people and I have had members leave because of this. I personally don’t see the issue, but I can see why people care when they are competing within the guild. To counter this ‘line theft’ we have two ideas:

  1. Either, a timer on line upon defeat. This would mean that when CaptainSmashFace loses a battle in the Fortress, the line can’t be hit by anyone other than CaptainSmashFace until a 5 minutes has passed. This means Timmy can’t just jump in and piss CaptainSmashFace off after CaptainSmashFace has put all that hardwork into hitting that Fortress line. The timer could be toggled by leadership and ranges from 0 – 5 minutes in 1 minute increments, i.e. the timer doesn’t have to be active if people don’t want it.

  2. Or, A lock in system. If a player wants a line, they can lock it to themselves for a time limit (also set in the settings by leadership). This would give them a set opportunity to clear it before it goes to free-for-all.
    I also realise that both of these settings could compromise a Fortress victory by locking lines and preventing them from being cleared at the end of it all. So maybe they could be permanently switched off in the last 30 minutes / hour of the Fortress timer.

I know Fortress is the last of your concerns right now. But it seems to be becoming a bigger issue within my guild, and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen other guilds mention that they don’t clear it very regularly. Fortress tokens seem to be becoming more important now that excess shards are more desirable.

I’d appreciate any input from anyone so that I could change some ideas if they don’t gain positive public opinion.

In addition to this, there was some discussion in the Discord chat with regards to changing the line-up selections within the Fortress itself. Currently they appear to be based off of Arena lines. This means that the line-ups tend to regularly include the meta line-up of Ginger, Howling, Bird, Fox and Punk. After facing this continuously in the Fortress, it becomes a bit monotonous. If there was a way to change this and make the line-ups more randomised, this could also make the Fortress function more engaging to users.

Best regards,

Wiz


#2

I guess I’ll just post my suggestions here:

I can think of a few ways how fortress could be changed, but this first one will for sure be disliked by some people. I’ll post it anyway, to get the complete overview. A way could be making fortress easier, combined with an attack limit, so people are really done after, say, 3 attacks. I think this would work, but I personally dislike this option since some people like to go all out on fortress, and try to beat as many lineups as possible.

Something I think would work better could be more customisation of the fortress’ ‘settings’ (done by the leader and champions). Right now, we can only change the difficulty and set an attack(/flag?) limit. I agree having a red dot would help, so maybe leaders could be allowed to set an attack goal after which the red dot disappears (using all heroes seems unreasonable to ask from all players, since the last few sometimes are completely useless)? Optionally, an option to change how many attacks have to be made to get the rewards could also work.
The red dot is, in my opinion, about the only thing that can get more people to participate (rewards are fine, a change with those is unlikely). Setting an attack requirement to get rewards would make sure people don’t just attack once. Hopefully that would remove having to monitor the people who attacked as well, so leaders only have to meddle with those who don’t attack at all.

Lastly, here’s something to make the fortress a better experience: Tweaking lineups you encounter in fortress could make it more interesting. I don’t know how they’re selected (probably based on popularity) but less ginger lineups would allow us to practice with different team compositions. For me, that’d make fortress more fun.

Regarding your suggestions about line theft: I think the best version would be allowing players to lock a line for 5 minutes, at most. If they attack it and fail, they automatically get 5 more minutes if they locked the lineup before. It’s crucial that players can only lock one lineup at a time. In my opinion, 5 minutes is plenty. You don’t want to see a whole bunch of locked lines when selecting your attack.

Regarding the daily you suggested: Perhaps it should be “Use xx heroes in fortress”. xx could be your total amount of heroes, divided by two (again, I don’t think it’s reasonable to require using all heroes).

The auto fight idea I like completely. The only thing I disagree with is the hiring idea. I think it works fine, and in total there are enough hires available. This way people have to strategise just a bit about their hiring. Changing it would either be a disadvantage to those who do their fortress attacks the last, or to those with slightly less good heroes (that wouldn’t be hired). That’s just my opinion though.


#3

My only suggestion is that every line is not some combination of ginger/claw or ginger/brawler. It is the most annoying thing to deal with


#4

Thanks WizarteroX and Helios for the great suggestions. Agree whole heartedly!

I personally would like to see changes regarding Fortress hires though. Maybe it’s not an issue in all guilds, but it is in mine. So many times I’ve gone to ‘clean up’ in the last hour, often very challenging lines that have been left, and there has been extremely limited choice of hires. So little choice that I’ve resorted to using 5 of my own, rather than hiring. It’s incredibly frustrating. I know that these issues can be combated within the guild, by having leadership dictate a ‘hitting schedule’ or rules around hiring, but with Fortress being as much as a chore as it is, I think that would be a deterrent to hit. Hires being less restricted would definitely make Fortress a less frustrating and tedious experience for me. I particularly like the ‘shorter countdown’ or ‘no countdown, hires can only be hired once by each guildmate’ suggestions.

I don’t see how changes would disadvantage people whose heroes don’t get hired in Fortress, as there’s no reward for having your heroes hired in Fortress anyway.


#5

Although I do like the ideas for more rewards for more participation and the auto fight option, I don’t think there is a problem with fortress. In all honesty, adding more options for leadership to micromanage fortress will not help if you cannot enforce a simple set of rules within your guild. Assuming you have the common sense rules of communicate with your teammates, treat people the way you want to be treated and fortress participation is mandatory in your guild… Enforce those simple rules and your guild should have no problems with fortress. I don’t think PQ needs to put in all those extra hours for a management problem.


#6

I appreciate your feedback on my suggestions.

Simply put, the issue is not a ‘management problem’. We are able to clear the Fortress should we so have to. That is besides the point. The underlying issue, in my opinion, with Fortress is the time-satisfaction ratio. By this I mean that the Fortress simply does not engage players enough to make them want to do it freely, and I am offering suggestions as a way to re-engage these players. Many of the new features being introduced are becoming quite time demanding. The Fortress rewards are not worthwhile to some players for the time they have to put into it every day if they want to clear it. This wasn’t as much of a problem before more players started to demand more shards as a result of requiring an excess for epics.

I understand that Perblue are working on ways to reduce these time demands on the game, and I am simply offering my suggestion on other ways in which Perblue can work to make the game smoother and make players want to get more involved with all of its features, rather than just having them there as another feature which they ‘have to’ be doing every day.


#7

Yes more xp please. It makes me happy.


#8

On the 3rd was your “stick” side of you taken over


#9

This is a guild issue not a game issue, basically you are asking the devs to sort the issues that you have in your guild.
More communication and coordination is the key for your problem i guess.


#10

But less guilds would have issues if it was a more fun (or at least less tedious) experience. We CAN clear it, we DO clear it, but most of our members begrudge doing it because it’s boring and lacklustre and the completion bonus isn’t great. Too much of the game feels like a ‘have to’ rather than a ‘want to’ and since PerBlue are actively seeking out ways to give players a better experience, I think implementing some of these suggestions would be great. If they’re willing to listen, why not ask? Just because it’s not ‘broken’ doesn’t mean it can’t be improved upon.


#11

Fortress is always one of the pain points for the leadership we have in the guild. we (as MYTH Inc) are 1 of 5 who do More harder difficulty. that suprised me a lot when someone told me that becasue we are not a top 10 guild. so that shows how much the timmy’s in the guild mess it up by either attacking once or not at all.

improvements are welcome.


#12

And I’m the guy who does most of the pinging and reminding for more harder fortress in MYTH Inc :slight_smile:

As it stands, fort is very time consuming to do, so we have a lot of people that just mindlessly auto pick all their attacks and subsequently do very little damage or just do one attack and leave. Although that means a lot of people work extra hard to get the job done, because I keep reminders early and often, hiring shortages are no longer a big issue and many days we’re capable of finishing much earlier than the deadline.

Although I really like the idea of incentivizing more fortress hits and having a red dot, I think the rest of the ideas can be solved with better guild management or will be solved as an effect of higher guild participation. For example, as I said earlier, the mercenary pool doesn’t have to be a big issue, and clean-up issues are easily solved by having your guild understand that it’s a team effort and that the flags mean barely anything. Plus, people that care more about their score than the guild effort as a whole generally don’t make good guild members anyways :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m hesitant about an auto-fight option because raids are a very different concept since in a raid you win every time. So I’m not sure if PQ even has an auto-fight system implemented (correct me if I’m wrong), and if they do then I’d be wary that it would make attacks sloppier than normal.

Finally, I do agree that there are too many ginger/howling lines, but I think this is more the fault of game mechanics than fortress itself. Simply put, most lines without ginger/howling/brawler are way way easier to take down with lineups significantly lessened in power, often that contain howling/brawler from the mercenary pool. So if PQ balances the heroes out more then I don’t this will be much of an issue.

Fortress can be a fun thing; our guild does celebrate after completing fortress everyday and I really enjoy the teamwork that comes from it. A change of mindset will do wonders, but I do think that implementing some of these suggestions would greatly reduce stress and make fort a lot more enjoyable for everyone. Maybe pick a few ideas, and we’ll see from there if anything additional needs to be added?


#13

I don’t know why everyone is so intent on claiming this is a communication issue. The point has already been reiterated that the issue does not lie with a ‘management problem’, as it was so quaintly put, rather the satisfaction gained from Fortress participation.

I started off by saying that the improvements were aimed at making people want to hit Fortress. This is not a matter of if they do or don’t. We have cleared it 20/21 times this month, I know this for a fact because I keep track so we can manage the guild effectively and coordinate well by communicating to the other guild members that they should be doing more. The point, which I keep highlighting, and will now make bold just to make it clear, is that Perblue are making changes in the game to make people want to participate in more of their game features. Therefore, I am simply suggesting ways in which another one of their features can be improved and isn’t just an added extra.

You can’t tell me that I don’t know how to lead the guild and then not expect a reaction.


#14

What do you mean by this?


#15

I agree with fortress being one of the things I do last, cuz it’s just too boring or too difficult at time. So a change would be very welcome from me.
I do like some of the ideas, making it less work and easier to get through and complete, also like the random lineups idea. However a lot of those wouldn’t work for smaller guilds. 5 attacks per person for instance could finish the whole fortress at times, so how do you decide who gets the 5 attacks and who doesn’t?
I support changing fortress, maybe look more into it. Making it more of a team challenge, maybe like raid bosses in other games, could spice things up and divert attention from war which is basically the main reason why people have guilds.


#16

The 5 attack issue for lower difficulties was also a reason I suggested that the 5 attack daily quest could be level unlockable. I just wasn’t sure on which level to suggest. Maybe it could be guild level unlockable instead?


#17

it could be made a guild perk (idk if you were thinking of the same)


#18

I was thinking more along the lines of it being an added extra when you get to Guild Level 3 or something similar. But I suppose a perk could work too.


#19

Ill put it like this. Its mean to the people who dont use all there heros in fort but in the end its funny. If that makes sense.


#20

In a sense, yes. But it’ll have a toggle on it, so it could disappear after using 50% of heroes, dependent on what leadership sets it as