My #hottake on the new dungeon mode and what that means for endless dungeon

Alrrrrrrrrrright, your favorite whiny #hottaker Warchief here with some thoughts on the new Boss Dungeon and what that means for Endless dungeon which (don’t tell anyone) I had actually been enjoying and thought was in a good spot.

First, let’s put some basic background information up so people understand how it works:

  • To enter the Boss dungeon, you need a certain amount of Boss Keys (5 for easy, 10 for medium, 15 for hard)
  • Boss keys can only be found in the endless dungeon, they have a chance to drop from bosses
  • You can only earn 3 keys a day, max
  • Bosses in endless dungeon are found every 5 floors - xx0, xx5
  • You additionally need to finish the trophy for Scion of Chaos which requires you to kill him 20 times

So, since there was a dungeon quest over the weekend, I had used my reset Monday morning and virtually all of my torches (tricky tricky), so I wasn’t able to do very much yesterday or today.

But I managed to kill 10 bosses total, 4 of whom were Scion of Chaos and 4 of which dropped keys. I’ve already used today’s reset and am out of torches again, so I’ll need to wait until tomorrow to reset and try again.

But here’s the thing (or things):

  1. If you want to do Boss Dungeon, you have to reset your progress in endless. That means if you’re one of the folks who was enjoying seeing how far you could go, enjoying the gear and influence drops … too bad. You can either run Boss Dungeon OR you can go deep in Endless dungeon. You cannot do both.

  2. If you want to do Boss Dungeon, resetting every day is the only real way to accumulate keys. Even doing every floor, you can reset and get back to floor 35 or so within an hour. That’s 7 bosses in less than an hour. Today, knowing I was going just for bosses, I killed 6 in 8 minutes and now am done with dungeon for the day. At floor 100+, how many hours would it take to go 35 floors? As @Thermal_Nuclear can attest, when you’re clearing every chest and every monster in a floor, that takes a while on the large floors.

So that’s basically the rub - if you want to even just try out the new content, you are forced to reset and lose out on all of your progress. If you want to try out the new content, you are forced to miss out on worthwhile gear and influence drops.

Some of you might think making the choice between trying new content/getting whatever drops are in Boss Dungeon and continuing to progress in endless/good gear/good influence is a good choice to be forced to make. I do not.

In fact, I cannot think of another instance in this game (or Dragonsoul) in which you were forced to make such a choice. If I’m playing World of Warcraft and am saved to Raid Encounter A and halfway through, trying out Raid Encounter B does not reset my progress in A.

Since I had already reset for the contest, the decision seemed rather easy for me, but even doing things in the most efficient manner, it will take me 3 days to acquire enough keys just to do easy and ~5-7 days to earn the trophy (the trophy is a one time thing). So, okay, 3 days for Easy, 6 days for Medium, and 9 days for Hard … a total of 18 days where I’m not earning gear and I’m not earning influence. That is a lot to give up.

Okay, so solutions, since I dislike this implementation:

  1. Instead of forcing you to reset to try Boss Dungeon, simply use a lock-out mechanic. You can choose one dungeon to run a day and it defaults to the last dungeon you chose. Once you enter a dungeon for the day, you are locked to that Dungeon for the day. To pick another dungeon the next day, you simply scroll over to the other, and click “Enter.” This enables people to continue their progress in Endless and still participate in Boss. Remember, it’s called “Endless” dungeon, not “Blitz Bosses and Reset every day” dungeon!

  2. Increase the drop rate of keys dramatically as you go deeper in the dungeon. I’ve got a 40% drop rate so far in floors 1-40. That means in order to earn 10 keys, I’ll have to kill 40 bosses. Without resetting, that’s 200 floors. That is obviously unreasonable given that there are only 3 players in the entire game over floor 200. Not only do I think at lower levels the keys should have a 100% drop rate from Bosses, but I think they should have a small chance to drop from chests as well.

The dynamic that they’ve created right now is that if you want to run the new content and earn stones for the new hero (and this is the only way to get them reliably, until they start offering bundles), you can’t run endless. My two solutions would allow you to continue to make deep runs and still participate in Boss, albeit at a slower pace (which I think is reasonable).

TLDR: Boss Dungeon kills Endless dungeon.

13 Likes

This absolutely made me incredibly angry when I found out about it… I’m just not going to do any Boss Dungeons until I mess up the Endless Dungeon and have to reset it.

Ideally though, they would just make it so they’re separate from one another and you don’t need to reset the Endless Dungeon in order to enter the Boss Dungeon.

2 Likes

Just did dungeon for the first time today since the contest. Really hated that my progress in endless was set back to level 3. I have no intention of doing dungeon again if I can’t play 1 floor a day only, and not have progress taken away. So, I was sent back to floor three, which I killed then reset it to 1. If anyone can explain what happened, I’d appreciate it, and would like to know if this will be a continued issue. If it is, has me thinking of leaving the game. Not good for casual players.

Solution: doing shrine daily should give a key fragment. That is included in the 3 max daily.

Doing that will allow people to go deep diving in dungeon.

Problem solved.

And i agree. I kinda figured everything you said out instantly when i read about the random drop on keys. Didnt wanna point it out before trying the new mode :stuck_out_tongue: but you did it for me.

2 Likes

Today I ran through 30 floors in the dungeon and killed 6 bosses in 6 minutes. I got 3 Scions for my trophy and 1 key.

I am now done with dungeon today since I’m out of torches. I’m at 8/20 for the trophy so in 5 more days I should be able to attempt the new Boss dungeon. By that time I’ll have ~12 keys.

The only way to find that out is to submit a ticket. Your progress shouldn’t be reset unless a) you leave in the middle of a Floor, in which case it resets the Floor or b) you use a Reset.

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I have left mid-floor before and it wasn’t reset. Why would it reset in that case?

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Hmm, I thought it reset me when I did that. Maybe that was in testing earlier. My bad! I’m wrong!

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Ok. Thank u 4 the info. I’ll submit a ticket if it happens again. So far, all good today.

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@Ironangel so my guildmate just ran through the new boss dungeon on Easy and Medium. He says there are 3 floors on Easy and 5 on Medium.

This information contradicts both what you said yesterday and what the in-game help says:

So, 1, is this correct and 2, if so, can we get the in-game help updated?

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Does anyone know the actual drops for Boss Dungeon? Or if it uses more torches, follows the same structures endless contains (shrines fountains, portals) or has bosses?

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OK.

The Key cost is 5,10,15 and the Floors are 3,5,8 respectively (Easy, Medium, Hard).

I’ll make a note to get the in game help fixed for 1.7.2

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Here’s some thoughts about the boss dungeon after my first run through.
Easy level (3 floors).
Was, well, easy. All fights are noticeably harder than in endless dungeon but not overly so. Used my normal team and only lost 1 hero on the last boss fight. Earned 4 scion shards, 1 per boss and 1 from a shrine. Not bad. Took about 8 minutes
Fyi. The run is over when the last lvl boss is defeated so I missed the shrine on lvl 3.
Normal mode (5 floors).
This mode is considerably harder. Earned 9 or 10 shards total. Most boss fights gave 1 shard. 4th flr boss gave 2. 5th flr gave 5. I think I found one in a shrine here as well. I made it through the first 4 floors ok. 5th floor is where I got excessively difficult. I lost fights just getting to the boss and then lost some on the boss as well. Imo this floor is way overpowered. It took roughly 35 to 50 torches and every hero I have to beat this boss. Also took more than 50 minutes.
Overview:
After two days of grinding just to get the boss dungeon open and the amount of time and effort to beat just the first two levels I came away with 17 shards. And some other gear (see ss). I am not looking forward to Hard Mode because I don’t think I’ll be able to get through it. But I guess I need a few more days of grinding endless before I have enough keys to get into that.

Ps. There are some interesting new options (both good and bad) in the wells and shrines. Good additions.

Seriously though, the well in boss dungeon should count towards the daily task!

7 Likes

Thanks for the overview of boss dungeon. I earned my toxic trophy today after several days of resets. Only then did I find I couldn’t enter boss dungeon…

Why do I need another reset??? That was a buzz kill after swearing I would have earned two grave witch trophies by now.

In other news, I heard a rumour Endless will be renamed skip-every-five-lvls-and-stop-at-30. IMO 30 is where skipping lvls starts to cost too many torches.

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I kinda thought that forcing Endless to reset if you want to participate in the Boss Dungeon was pretty dumb.

Also, we certainly need more torches. It would be nice if we could get them as promotional prizes in the dungeon contests such as what was offered durinf the introduction contest after the Dungeon was released.

I do love the dungeon though, and I could play it all day if I had enough torches.

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@Ironangel I didn’t think this warranted a new thread just for this question, but I’ve seen a lot of folks reporting that they are failing both traps and trapped chests at a much greater rate since the last patch. People who were having an easy go of it at level 100+ are now struggling at level 70. Was something changed there?

Im at floor 70 ish something. Not a single debuff on a single hero so far for 30 floors.

Lol

Another reason why Boss Dungeon kills Endless Dungeon – only finding shrines in endless counts towards your daily Dungeon Dweller Quest!

So doing Boss Dungeon means you miss out on the daily quest :frowning:

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Wow that seems like a crazy oversight!